Welcome to The B2B Mix Show. We’re focused on digital marketing and sales topics to help you elevate your B2B brand. Check back on Mondays for new episodes.

On this episode, UpContent CEO Scott Rogerson shares insights on curated content’s role in marketing, sales, and beyond. He provides tips on doing content curation the right way. Learn how a strategic approach to curation takes you a step beyond “sharing other people’s content” to build your brand’s position as a thought leader and to create a learning organization.

Scott covers the following points about curated content

  • Typical fears and concerns when it comes to curated content
  • How curation can position the brand and sales reps as subject matter experts
  • The definition of good curation and how it’s different from content aggregation
  • Typical mistakes marketers still make with content curation
  • How to curate content to support evergreen and pillar page strategies
  • The importance of consistency when curating (frequency, posting) and how technology can help minimize time and effort
  • The role of curation in other areas: social media, employee advocacy, original content ideation, internal information sharing and education
    • Enlisting the help of subject matter experts across the organization to curate the right content for marketers to leverage
    • Ways to distribute curated content
    • How sales teams are beginning to embrace content curation for social selling, personal brand building, and sharing knowledge with the marketing team
    • Using content curation tools to build learning organizations (internally)
    • Leveraging technology to get more out of content curation
    • Legal concerns (like the EU Copyright Directive) and the future of content curation

Have more questions for Scott? Connect with him on Twitter or LinkedIn.

Want to see how we use UpContent on our website? Check out our Jackson Marketing’s What We’re Reading page.

Want to get your own UpContent account and support the show?  Sign up for an account using our affiliate link: https://my.upcontent.com/sign-up?fp_ref=b2bmix. (Disclosure: just to be clear, if you sign up using our affiliate link, we will receive a small commission.)

The B2B Mix Show with Alanna Jackson and Stacy Jackson is brought to you by Jackson Marketing. Need help with your B2B online presence? Let’s talk!

Transcript for Season 1, Episode 15

Read the full transcript of Content Curation’s Role in Marketing, Sales, and Beyond. You can also learn more about content curation by reading our ungated guide.

Read Full Transcript

Alanna Jackson: Welcome to the B2B Mix Show with Alanna and Stacy. Each week we'll bring you ideas that you can Implement in your own marketing strategy. We'll share what we know and advice from industry experts who will join us from time to time here on the show. Are you ready to mix it up? Let's get started.

Alanna Jackson: Hello everyone. This is Alanna Jackson.

Stacy Jackson: And this is Stacy Jackson.

Alanna Jackson: We are the co-founders of Jackson Marketing and in case you didn't know yes, we are sisters today. We are happy to welcome our special guest CEO Scott Rogerson from UpContent. Scott is going to talk with us about content curation and how curation can support your Evergreen and hub or pillar page strategies.

Alanna Jackson: Before we get started. Here's a little background on Scott and his company. Before founding UpContent Scott was the CEO of a marketing agency where he saw firsthand how difficult and time-consuming it is to manage and measure a content curation strategy, which sparked his idea to start UpContent. So he can help others take some of the pain points out of content curation. UpContent, for those who don't know, is a Content curation platform that helps communications teams discover and share trustworthy content to measurably increase engagement and reduce manual workflows.

UpContent's proprietary discovery engine services, news, and blog articles based on customer criteria and presents them in a collaboration focused platform to help infuse a company's distributed expertise in the review and approval of articles. The platform makes it super simple to distribute content via social media profiles, on your website, in newsletters, and more. In fact, our company Jackson Marketing uses UpContent to populate our websites "What we're reading" and to also find curated content to share on social.

Alanna Jackson: Scott, welcome to the show.

Scott Rogerson: Thanks very much for having me. It's great to be with you.

Alanna Jackson: Can you tell us a little bit about UpContent and how it helps alleviate some of those pain points that arise during the content curation?

Scott Rogerson: Yeah. So, you touched on a few of them. I think overall what we've seen and it'd be great to get your thoughts on this as well from the other perspective.

Scott Rogerson: Is that content marketing as a whole has changed a lot over there the years. Starting out as we have to write everything ourselves and do those 300 word blog posts and really focus on volume. And as both our customers and the search engines themselves have continue to get smarter that pendulum is shifting now to looking at quality over quantity.

Scott Rogerson: And we're seeing a lot more organizations focus on really writing only what they have unique perspective on and instead surrounding those articles or those pieces with the same type of content, other people's perspectives, to reinforce the original perspective that they're providing. Provide that context, to build that credibility, and try to serve as an authority figure or a single location for their target audience to come and become educated in that topic area.

Scott Rogerson: Stimulate that additional action and really the focus of UpContent is to help people do that allow them to spend more time in those original perspective areas, but still ensure that we're showcasing those original perspectives in the best way possible and curated articles is a great way to do that.

Stacy Jackson: Yeah, we really enjoy using the UpContent tool. It's created that nice spot on our site to show that you know, we're in touch with what other experts are talking about and reinforce our opinion, like you said. And I really love how you guys have that Snip.ly integration so that when people do click on one of those they might leave our sight but they take a little bit of us with them through a Snip.ly pop-up or call to action. It's really cool. We really like UpContent.

Scott Rogerson: Love to hear that...More to come and you guys have been great in helping to provide that feedback and that's what we love about our customers and the community is that continuous feedback loop. Alanna, I'm looking at you on that one to get those thoughts and feedback of ways we can continue to change and improve. And I think Stacy you mentioned a great piece about some of the traditional fears of curation and you hit one right on the head that we hear almost every time we're starting that conversation, which is whether using UpContent or just implementing the strategy manually.

Scott Rogerson: But aren't I sending people away to somebody else's site and how does that help me achieve my goals. And you know Snip.ly Is a great solution that we've been a partner with for a few years now to, as you mentioned, continue to provide that reminder both directly and then certainly indirectly as well if you have related advertising campaigns of who the authority figure was who brought you to that article to begin with. But we also whether or not you're using that tool, you know, really trying to think about the fact that they're going to find it anyway, and do you want them to try to find that information after reading your article by spending hours upon hours of doing that research or God forbid somebody else may be a competitor of yours providing that resource to them and then building that trust and credibility with them instead.

Scott Rogerson: We've really tried to couch curation, not necessarily as a pure marketing tactic, but as a service to that audience to that prospective customer and a lot of cases to that current customers as well to keep yourself top of mind. And when you share that great article give them a reason to share it with somebody else make them more knowledgeable about the services that you're providing and why you're providing them.

Scott Rogerson: And really serve as that, "Hey don't just take my word for it" aspect and that's only becoming more and more important as trust right now between organizations and consumers is at an all-time low.

Alanna Jackson: I was going to say like you said that a lot of companies fear sharing other people's content and that is one of the biggest things that drives me insane with companies is that they're so afraid to share somebody else's content.

Alanna Jackson: Because they don't, 'A' they don't know that there's something like Snip.ly out there or 'B' they're just thinking that oh, well, we just have to talk about ourselves and they don't understand the importance of sharing someone else's content and and looking like those thought leaders. Have you noticed that when people come in that they aren't aware of Snip.ly and is that something that they're like, "What? This is awesome!" Have you noticed a lot of them aren't aware of it?

Scott Rogerson: Yeah about 80% of the time, I would say. We hear that fear of "but aren't I sending somebody away" or "isn't that going to hurt my SEO because I'm sending people to other sites" or "what if my competitor is mentioned somewhere on that page. What am I going to do then?" And you know, we have that discussion and we're seeing less and less of that. I think more and more organizations are starting to think about, as you mentioned in the introduction, this pillar content strategy and really targeting resources into areas that they can be uniquely effective in their original content and then surrounding it with those curated pieces and knowing that if my consumer or my prospect wanted to find out about competitors they have other ways to do that.

Scott Rogerson: I'm not the only website in town. I'm certainly not going to be the only one that they're going to visit. And on top of that there's a lot of research and more and more coming out every day. If your B2B or B2C, I think the average now is 76% of your website visitors would not complete your conversion action regardless of how enticing you made it seem even if you were giving away the product for free. They're just not at that stage yet.

Scott Rogerson: And so we have to stop evaluating the metrics looking for that 100% percent conversion or that eight-minute session duration on the site or the fact that they're going to get all the information they ever need from my own voice in my own word. If they had it all from you. They probably wouldn't trust it.

Scott Rogerson: And so by focusing on your unique differentiation how you think about the world and how you think about their problem and then surrounding it with don't just take my word for it. We've all done this in sales conversations or in marketing discussions, right? Hey, here's a link that talks about what I was just saying to you.

Scott Rogerson: And now you're actually going to believe what I just said versus here's another article that I also wrote that says the same thing as this other article that I wrote which is the same thing as this article from two months ago that I wrote. It's hard hard to trust me, right, if I'm just showing you what I wrote and we can all think of popular figures who rely just upon their own knowledge time and time and time again to reinforce things that they say by quoting themselves in the past and we all know how ineffective that is.

Stacy Jackson: Right.

Alanna Jackson: Now is a good time to take a break and hear from our sponsor.

Alanna Jackson: And we are back.

Stacy Jackson: So we've kind of danced around what high-level content curation is. Maybe you could really define what UpContent's view is on content curation and what it's not and then maybe roll into that evergreen pillar page strategy.

Scott Rogerson: That's such an important topic and we really try to help our customers and prospects and others we're talking to understand the definition of curation because that's one of those buzzwords that gets thrown around quite a bit. Right? Curation doesn't mean finding the Jackson marketing Services RSS feed and sharing everything from there onto my own social feed even though I know that it's great stuff, right because my individuals who are following my social feed or getting my newsletter they can just go to you guys and get that information.

Scott Rogerson: I'm not providing any service by just sharing everything that comes across. And we remember those days in the past we went to websites and it had the New York Times RSS feed scrolling on the bottom there and again, really no benefit to that other than now I've learned that you know, who the New York Times is, which doesn't really help me determine whether or not you're the right person for me to work with.

Scott Rogerson: And so there's a huge distinction between curation and aggregation and we try to think about this and try to talk about this like, you know, we've all been to that museum, right? And the goal of that museum curator is to piece together artifacts, display resources, other visuals, so that when I walk up to that exhibit I understand context. I've learned something about that time period or that specific exhibit topic without having to go up and read all the little plaques inside, right? And in most cases that museum curator didn't create any of that, right?

Scott Rogerson: They didn't create the dinosaur fossil. They just found them and pieced them together and surrounded them with other artifacts that help me get a better understanding of what life was like at that time or more about the specimen that I'm looking at. And that's really how we try to think about the content curation side as well, right?

Scott Rogerson: The way that your what we're reading section is set up is that when I go to it, I can see the various cards the various articles that have been selected. It helps me learn a bit more about the two of you without having to talk to you and without having to even read an original piece and it makes me desire to read more about you and learn more about you just by looking at it. And so I think curation has somehow in some cases or some circles gotten a bad rap because it is being blended with this idea of just aggregating information and adding to the noise. Where really the goal of curation is to help your prospects and your customers cut through the noise by relying upon you to select the best articles for them to read because there is so much information out there.

Scott Rogerson: And in a lot of cases conflicting information and so by being the organization or being the brand or being the individual that has brought those articles, together found the best of the best, and easily gotten them to your audience in a way that they can easily consume them and remember that you're the one who's helping them do that.

Scott Rogerson: That's the way to start to build that trust which builds the relationship which makes the sale and allows them to be a referral party for you because of the satisfaction that they received.

Alanna Jackson: What would you say are the biggest mistakes that you've seen marketers making when it comes to content curation?

Scott Rogerson: So there's definitely still...and you guys probably see it in some of your conversations with clients early on as well where there's still this mentality of I need to create as many pages as possible on my site and I need to put something out, you know once a day or three times a week and they're talking about it in terms of volume of content versus, you know you alluded to this nature, this pillar content strategy of I may not have the resources to create a great piece of content even every week.

Scott Rogerson: And maybe I don't even have enough resources to create once a month, but I can dedicate myself to create a really great piece of content quarterly or monthly and instead of using that time trying to create the top 10 things you should consider for your SEO strategy because there's already eight million of those articles out there. I'm going to focus on a specific area that I'm very interested in. And drive toward that and talk about that article instead and then surround it with the other eight million articles and most importantly the 10 out of those eight million that are super important.

Scott Rogerson: And so I think there's too much still of this original versus curated content where the quantitative research is showing, the anecdotal research is showing, just your personal buying habits have shown that we really should be when we look at it from a volume perspective, overweighting the curated side. So in a lot of cases, we're seeing 50 to 75 percent curated content from a study done by Convince & Convert has your conversion rate or number of leads go up by more than two times by having that blend.

Scott Rogerson: Too many marketers, I think are still thinking about this as I'm curating because I can't create rather than I'm curating to help what I create be more valuable, get more eyeballs on it, and provide those who are reading it the context as to where that article came from.

Scott Rogerson: So as far as how marketers should use curation to support or help those big cornerstone or pillar hub pieces that they create, how would you recommend they use content curation to support those and improve thought leadership that is associated with them or even the distribution of those to other people?

Scott Rogerson: Yeah. Yeah, really great question and I think what we've seen in terms of the most effective customers who work with and just observing how others who may be using another method than UpContent to curate content is 'A' doing it consistently right just like we've heard from the original content side. We need to be consistent. We can't just you know, we've all seen those organizations that we know have the summer intern because there's nothing happening on social or no emails are received and then all of a sudden between May and August, they're all active and there's stuff happening everywhere and we're getting emails and then September happens and we hear nothing again.

Scott Rogerson: So we have to not do that. And one of the ways to do that is make sure that we're spending our time in that comparative advantage concept, right? Doing the things that we can do best as marketers and then allowing technologies or assistance from the outside to help us do those things that we shouldn't be spending a lot of time on. So in our philosophy its we shouldn't be spending a ton of time hunting for articles on the web manually looking through our email or our Google Alerts and trying to remember which one I should be reading. Clicking on articles and just reviewing a wide smattering of articles. Let technology help you find that content and then where we also shouldn't be spending a ton of time is that manual, labor intensive, soul-sucking page of getting that article to where it needs to go, right? The manual steps of copying and pasting and opening tabs and logging in and all that.

Scott Rogerson: Where we need to be spending our time is the actual curation. Finding the articles and piecing them together in a way to reinforce content that we either plan to create as part of her editorial calendar and having that stable of great articles available to us and available to our sales team or using the curated articles to help us identify what we should be talking about,. You know, whether there's gaps in the new cycle or a common belief about something differs from what our organization thinks about that same concept. That's a great way to utilize curated content too once again immediately provide that context as to why I'm talking about this and know that we're putting it into a space where it's not being crowded out by the noise.

Scott Rogerson: One of the other areas that we are now starting to see curation evolve into, which is very exciting I think for the industry as a whole or the practice as a whole, is that curation doesn't have to just rest on the shoulder of the marketing team or just one individual in the marketing team. And what we would love to see and are starting to see be very effective is that that same effort of curation can bleed into professional development, right?

Scott Rogerson: Employee advocacy can be a great final point of that process, but we should be utilizing these articles to help our team be more aware of what's going on regardless of if they're in the marketing industry or the marketing department or not. Can we actually rely upon those subject matter experts that are already in our organization that we know are already reading things to make it easy for them to provide those articles to our marketing group and then let our marketing group and their ability to understand how that content can best fit into the strategy for the brand get it to where it needs to go.

Scott Rogerson: And we see this a lot particularly in B2B professional services, technolog,y consulting, healthcare, and education ,right? Where the marketing group certainly has a level of depth of understanding about the particular industry or problem that their organization is solving but they're not CPAs or attorneys or healthcare practitioners or educators.

Scott Rogerson: And if only I could tap into what she's thinking, you know down the hall, and what she's reading. Well, we need to find a way to do that and make it available to that group and make it available to the sales group and make the content available to the customer success team so that we have this unified and consistent communication. Similarly for our marketing channels themselves, right?

Scott Rogerson: We shouldn't anymore have to find an article just to create that tweet and then the article dies and there's nothing else we can use it for, right? Where we've seen the most success from our customers is their ability to take that article, put it onto Twitter, and get the Snip.ly link as you're talking about that so there's that overlay, but also that same article that they spent that time curating and finding or that group of articles can be a great email campaign that's non-confrontational, if you will, because I'm not asking you to buy my product or download this white paper. I'm just saying.

Scott Rogerson: Hey guys, here's some great things that I think you should be reading again setting it up as a service and then similar to what you guys have done on your site, making it a resource repository where I know as a current client of Jackson Marketing or a prospective client I can get in there and say wow, look at all the resources that are here for me and these can be updated far more quickly than if I had to write it all myself. So, long answer to a very very short question, but I think the idea of the content itself spreading beyond marketing and reusing and leveraging the efforts that the marketing team is already doing is where we see it done, right?

Alanna Jackson: So extending outside of marketing, have you noticed more people in sales coming into wanting to use content curation and even approaching you about setting up their own instance?

Scott Rogerson: We have actually and it's very interesting because an individual, you know, high-powered, business development person really wants to build not only the brand for the organization, but they want to build her own personal brand and share great content out there and be at the forefront of the industry because.

Scott Rogerson: It's this H2H human-to-human interaction, right? And that's where we want to be that I'm not working necessarily with Jackson Marketing Services. I'm working with Stacy and Alanna and I have a relationship with you guys. And so you're who I want to talk to and you're who I want to do with not just kind of this overarching brand that I don't really know or can feel or touch or understand.

Scott Rogerson: And so we are seeing more and more of the sales teams raising their hand to marketing and saying, "Hey guys, like it's great that you're putting out these awesome articles once a month or once a quarter, but I need stuff to share every day." And the marketing team is pushing back and saying, "Hey sales person, you know, you can't be some rogue cowboy out there just sharing whatever you darn well, please because you're also representing our organization," and this is particularly true in organizations that have a compliance layer on top of them.

Scott Rogerson: Marketing needs to approve and compliance needs to approve what goes out but we need to do it at such a scale in such a volume that the sales team not only feels like they're getting what they need, but there's a lot of research showing whether you're in sales or in any of the other departments the ability for the organization to help support the personal brand building of your employee group significantly increases satisfaction of that team, retention of that team, and the ability to acquire better talent, right?

Scott Rogerson: Because when we think about ourselves looking for that next job and next opportunity, what do we do, right? We certainly will go to the website and read all that stuff, but we immediately know that that's gotten so much polish on it that of course, it sounds great and it makes sense and we're all work-life balance and excited about what we're doing.

Scott Rogerson: But what I'm going to want to do is if I'm moving into the sales department or the finance department, I'm going to go to LinkedIn or some other location and try to identify who's already there. See what they're all about. And what's that true team culture feel like I'm looking under the covers a little bit and if those individuals don't have an actual profile picture or haven't updated their LinkedIn in a year or two years and aren't sharing things actively that tells me something about the organization.

Scott Rogerson: And so we want to really see and we're seeing more and more partially spurred by this employee advocacy strategy, which is fantastic, but also being spurred by the HR Group and we're seeing HR and marketing start to work more hand-in-hand realizing that they have to market from a talent perspective and market to retain with marketing doing a lot of that effort already and having that expertise and so providing that over there.

Scott Rogerson: So we see, I think if we look out to the future, curation is going to be a team effort and team, meaning outside of just the marketing group, and where we see the best is where that outside group is feeding content into marketing. So that when I come in, I mean wouldn't it be great right if you walk in as part of a marketing organization, you've already gotten X number of articles that have been fed in by those subject matter experts?

Scott Rogerson: What's better than that? Right and then you can feed that content back as well and they can use that on their own social profiles or share it via an email to a prospect that they're trying to close the deal on and we can remove those just checking in or looping back or how you doing that all really mean why haven't you bought from me yet emails?

Scott Rogerson: And instead say, "Great conversation two weeks ago Stacy. I know we were talking about personal branding. Here's a great article that our team was recently talking about that I thought you'd enjoy," and I can paste that link into the email because it's already in a repository, already classified as personal branding.

Scott Rogerson: And it's very easy then for me to take that next step and for me as the salesperson to say, "Wow. I really am impressed with what marketing is doing for me as an individual not just me as part of this larger company."

Alanna Jackson: It takes a lot of that heavy lifting off of them.

Scott Rogerson: Absolutely and I think it creates that synergy between the two where historically right sales and marketing have not always seen eye-to-eye on the best way to approach the market.

Scott Rogerson: And by really showing that yeah, I know isn't that weird and you guys I'm sure never, never experienced that but, you know that ability now to not be seen as the department that's slow and takes forever to approve things and gets the article out but gets it out two months later than when we needed it to really tap into the sales group whose hearing that voice of the customer every day. And allowing them to then feedback articles to marketing and then marketing can actually take action on that quickly because they have it all set up and there is a place on the website for it and they can put you know a Snip.ly overlay on it or get it into the next email newsletter.

Scott Rogerson: That's a beautiful thing and certainly that's not the majority of organizations. But I do think many organizations and more and more are either approaching that level of maturity or have it as part of their strategic plan to get to that level.

Stacy Jackson: Yeah, I like that idea of using or taking curation and the thought of it to that next level where it it becomes not just marketing but about creating a learning organization where everyone has access to the latest information and are well-versed in the industry because they've taken time to share these articles with one another. I think that's definitely the next level.

Scott Rogerson: Absolutely, and you know some great examples where we've seen accounting organizations, for example, right where they have an awesome marketing team and they are I mean out of this world in terms of knowing how to attack a strategy. implement a strategy, measure impact, and determine ROI but they're not CPAs and so they have to and are frustrated about having to go through an eight-step process of approvals and edits from someone who is billable, right?

Scott Rogerson: And doesn't have a lot of time to focus on this because they don't see necessarily the direct value to their work, but we need to get approval from that person because they're the expert. And remember that time three years ago where we shared that article and it turned out that that was a bad article to share and we all got our hands smacked?

Stacy Jackson: And so now I'm just going to sit on my hands and do it the conservative way knowing that it's not the best way, but I'm afraid to share something from a third party especially because I don't know if someone's going to get upset on the third floor of the 20th floor of the organization.

Scott Rogerson: It's going to come across that. So can we make that an easier workflow where there's confidence in the group outside of marketing that marketing has the tools they need and those confident within marketing that they can actually do what they were brought in to do. And I think, to your point, that's creating that knowledge organization and creating that free flow of ideas that we've always been talking about. But now they don't have to just be our ideas anymore. They can be ideas and learnings that we've gotten from other resources and those can be just as valuable, if not more valuable to be sharing.

Stacy Jackson: So in your work with different clients for UpContent. What have you seen any interesting or unique content curation strategies? I remember one that you pointed out where a customer was curating on behalf of a client on their website, like account-based marketing almost.

Scott Rogerson: Yeah, absolutely. And I think you know, we're seeing lots of unique ways, which is so much fun, right? There's no organization that's doing it the exact same way and focusing on the exact same way because I think as we know in this industry that we're in it's always experimentation all the time. I think some of the most unique and exciting ways have been the organizations that have brought it as an internal effort and aligned it not just with marketing but with professional development.

Scott Rogerson: And so there are a couple customers that we have that are not just sending out an external email but also sending out an internal email to the team and saying, "Hey, here's some great articles that we read this week guys that we think you might be interested in," and seeing the sales individuals grabbing some of those articles and sending out to their prospects and writing back to marketing and say, "Hey, thanks for sending this is great stuff. I just came across this article last week. Wanted to send it along back to you."

Scott Rogerson: And now you've got this loop. Now, marketing is getting articles that sales actually enjoys and you know seeing that evolve in flow where this is an organization of a decent-sized that has an employee advocacy program as well. So those same articles get fed into that program which hit, you know, every employees phone and they're getting the adoption and engagement that they would expect and I hoped for when they weren't seeing that before because they were just sharing their earnings announcements or press releases or their own blog content.

Scott Rogerson: And every employee already knows where to get that if they haven't already gotten three emails that it's out. And so giving this channel is a way for them to really see thought leadership be part of that informal training process and you know, these this group has even brought these articles to the digital screens inside of their corporate locations so that as an employee walking by.

Scott Rogerson: I'm not just seeing generic news content flowing across or only when the next potluck is that happened two months ago and has it been changed yet. I'm seeing the articles that I can also see on my phone and I can also get inside of my SharePoint site and I think having that same effort that the marketing team is doing and finding those articles be present in all of these channels.

Scott Rogerson: But do it in a way that they don't have to lift that finger and log into each of those channels to update it. It's a button click and now they're in everything and each one of those has its own call to action, its own desired next step, and there's ability to analyze those channels. That's really where you start to see immediate ROI quick ROI and Lasting ROI.

Alanna Jackson: I'm going to switch it up just a little bio you foresee like issues with content curation with laws like the copyright directive coming out of the EU or do you even anticipate more companies going to tools like UpContent because of these laws?

Scott Rogerson: Yeah, really good question in a super exciting area that it doesn't certainly have a this is the way the world is going to work answer and that's kind of what makes this so exciting. So EU articles 11 and 13 that I think have been recently renamed to 14 and 16 or something like that. Don't quote me on that. But I think they added another article in on the top and it pushed all the numbers down.

Scott Rogerson: You know, those are, I think, well-founded and what they're trying to accomplish and the goal there right is to protect the rights of the publisher. And we at UpContent believe in that wholeheartedly and that's why you'll see that when you're using UpContent, we do not provide the ability to embed the full text of an article on the site.

Scott Rogerson: Even if you put the link on there that says this article was originally from Forbes, right? We're going to take you and help you take your visitors to the Forbes article. And certainly there's the Snip.ly option that you can overlay but the goal is to ensure that Forbes is seeing that traffic because they're the ones who wrote the article, that's where that author is working and getting paid from and we need to make sure that we're honoring those rights.

Scott Rogerson: So I think in a lot of cases, these are reactionary policies toward bad behavior from organizations in the past. You'll see and you've seen kind of how Google has come out and kind of educated quote-unquote the industry about well, here's what Google News would look like if these are articles got implemented as is so I think the view, in general, is that 11 and 13 aren't going to be implemented as they're currently written.

Scott Rogerson: There's going to be some middle ground there and the interesting piece about these is it's no longer in those articles the goal is that it's not up to the publisher to find the bad behavior and then enforce it but it's up to the curator to make sure that they're doing it correctly. And the liability is more on them and what they're sharing.

Scott Rogerson: And I think that's appropriate if we want to have an ability to find all of this information without having to go to each individual site and so you know, the balance of publishers for us again is hugely important. There are some publishers who are a little bit more down the curve in terms of how they think about what curation tools can help with. And certainly, you know, our voice and view is that there's value to these publications by putting that into the Jackson Marketing Services topics so that you see it where you might not have seen it before and you share it on social where you might not have shared it or it's in your email or it's on your website and they're getting the benefit of traffic coming to them.

Scott Rogerson: There are other Publishers who are very much a Walled Garden and you have to have a subscription to come in you have to come in manually and that's the only way you're going to see. The article and we probably can think of some of those as well. Our view is that those organizations are missing out on some of this traffic that they would have seen otherwise and for organizations that have and publishers that have the, "hey, to read the full article you need to have a subscription."

Scott Rogerson: We think that's great. That's fine. We know that the advertising model for these news organizations is severely strained right now, but we don't believe that becuase of that strain you shouldn't allow others to understand what is behind that wall. You should allow us to see that there is some great stuff back there and that's worthy of subscribing to. Not as the curator subscribing in order to get access to that so that everybody else that they're sharing with can get a free ride on it, but there's a question mark inside of the period at the end of this but I have full faith and confidence that there is this great relationship that can be done between publishers and the distribution channels. We just need to find what that balance is and know that that balance isn't going to be set in stone once and then never have to move, right?

Scott Rogerson: And I think we can look to the television industry and distributors versus content creators there and seeing that that line continues to move and be pulled in a tug-of-war to one direction to the other with over-the-top and what Disney's coming out with and what Netflix is doing and all of those channels, but it's also very important to see that and understand that none of those organizations have been able to currently be successful by just dumping their own stuff in.

Scott Rogerson: They also have this blend of original and curated programming that they're getting from other sources and I think the same thing is going to happen across the web.

Stacy Jackson: Yeah good point. That's true with it even entertainment that they have to curate different shows in. Nobody just wants to see Disney movies all day or at least I don't .

Scott Rogerson: Right, exactly, exactly and we've even seen right you look at that right Netflix, right? They have some great original programming on there, but I would expect, love you Netflix, that if it was just original Netflix programming that subscription value would be far lower of a benefit to its subscribers than the fact that of them having these other pieces of programming available as well. And so we just need to find that balance and we're hoping that right now publishers are seeing us as being far more favorable to them and leaning more toward their rights.

Scott Rogerson: Then maybe they would think quote-unquote we need to because they're critical to having that great thought leadership out there and allowing us to provide that context in an unbiased way by showing what the other individuals are saying who may have more Authority than we do or at least the less biased than we are perceived to be and use some of that authority to help advance our conversation our unique perspective.

Stacy Jackson: So, Scott, are there any other pieces of advice or even warnings that you would give to marketers when it comes to content curation and how they should proceed?

Scott Rogerson: I think the biggest thing that we've heard and I think you know when speaking with you guys you came with all this already so with a much easier conversation, but there's still a thought process of curation as a way to fill the gap and just plug the hole by using other people's content.

Scott Rogerson: And we think that that's wrong, right? And that's not going to provide the ROI that you're looking for. And so we always talk about curation strategy, not meaning that it's the only strategy that you're employing, but it really needs to be thought about as a strategic process not just a tactic to resolve kind of short-term challenges of we're not getting enough articles out there that we had thought we were going to.

Scott Rogerson: So instead of doing original content that we had planned on we're just going to use curation and said instead and try to apply the same KPIs that we put on original content to evaluate whether our curated content is working or not. You know, very different goals or at least there should be very different goals in terms of what your curation process is supposed to achieve as we mentioned is really focusing on engaging those target customers were target audience members.

Scott Rogerson: Giving them a reason to keep coming back to you in a consistent way and allowing them to better understand where you're coming from so that the original content that you're developing is far more powerful than if the original content was asked to stand on its own. So really thinking through once again, just like you're doing on the original side who were the personas, what are they interested in looking at? And one of the questions we always try to start new conversations with hopeful new customers is what are the articles that you wish your last few prospect calls or conversations - what are the Articles you wish they had read before they spoke with you? Because we all have those in mind.

Scott Rogerson: I wish they would have known this or wish they would have thought about this. And those are the articles. We then want to cure it. It's that's that really approaching it as a strategy not just something that we hand down to the lowest person on the totem pole and say hey, we've got a few open slots in our Twitter posting calendar this week.

Scott Rogerson: Can you go find some stuff to fill it up with...Not going to have the same impact, right?

Alanna Jackson: Yeah. I think it's important to have that strategy because it kind of sets the stage for how things are going to happen and flow throughout your whole process.

Stacy Jackson: And if you're not careful, you become a hoarder and not a curator of good content.

Scott Rogerson: Yes. Yes. Exactly. And you're just adding to the noise. Right?

Stacy Jackson: Right.

Scott Rogerson: Because I don't understand why you picked these articles. You're posting every five minutes, right? Fantastic. I don't know why I don't know you're cluttering my feed. So you're actually pushing me away from you than helping me come toward you.

Stacy Jackson: So we have one more question for you and this is just the fun getting to know you question.

Scott Rogerson: Yeah.

Stacy Jackson: If you weren't the CEO of UpContent, what would you be doing if you could do anything and why?

Scott Rogerson: Since I was little, architecture to me has always been fascinating and you know, whether that blends out to engineering or not, but I think the whole idea of architecting something that has a lifespan, hopefully that's longer than yours, and seeing it go from idea to item on paper to actually being a physical tangible structure. I think is one of the most amazing things that one could do so that that would definitely be. If I could wave that wand and do something and have to do something else, I'll prefix that, that would be something that would be very interesting.

Scott Rogerson: I have zero skills and abilities to actually accomplish that. So it would have to wind it why the dial back a good bit to actually be able to realize that goal. But I think you know, that would be a very interesting responsibility to have.

Alanna Jackson: That's not something you need a degree in that you could just do that without any problem. I may not live in a house that you built but you know...

Scott Rogerson: That's right. The other day, I laid bricks underneath one of those plastic playhouses, right? And I had to make a rectangle. And that was as far as my skills can go. A rectangle of bricks tthat is one layer high.

Stacy Jackson: Well, it's the first step.

Scott Rogerson: That's right. That's exactly right.

Stacy Jackson: Well Scott, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing your expertise on content curation. If our listeners would like to get in touch with you. What's the best way they can reach you? And we'll put this in the show notes as well.

Scott Rogerson: That's great, you know feel free to reach out to me directly at Scott with two T's upcontent.com. Certainly happy to talk to you whether it's about UpContent or just going back and forth on your ideas about curation and content how marketing needs to evolve in the future. I welcome all all comers and so will be a lot of fun to have those discussions.

Stacy Jackson: And you're also on LinkedIn, too. They can reach you there.

Scott Rogerson: Yes. Yep, absolutely on LinkedIn. It's just as normal LinkedIn path / Scott A Rogerson and Twitter as well, which is also Scott A Rogerson. So find me on any of those channels, wherever you can find me. I'm happy to have the conversation.

Alanna Jackson: And there you have it folks...Connect with Scott and reach out to him. If you have any questions or would like to learn more about UpContent or content curation in general. And as always we will provide all the links you'll need from this episode in the show notes.

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