In this episode, CEO Jack Kosakowski of The Creation Agency gives marketers insights and tips for better sales and marketing alignment and how to think more like a salesperson and to uncover what your salespeople really need from marketers.

Jack covers:

  • The similarities between prospecting and lead generation
  • How the amount of content noise and chaos requires marketers to help salespeople stand out and apart to get more conversations
  • His own experience in both sales and marketing roles
  • How salespeople and marketers must get aligned
  • The big problem of forgetting sales and marketing alignment in content strategy
  • The need to help create content to help buyers and reps relate to one another
  • What marketers should do when there is a wall between them and the sales team
  • How marketers hurt their reputations with sales teams when they don’t define the MQLs, SQLs process
  • The need to get more proficient with martech and understanding data to develop a data-driven sales and marketing process
  • The blur between social selling and personal brand building
  • AI buzz versus reality
  • What salespeople should remember about working with marketers
  • Why marketers need to talk one-on-one with reps to learn more about their day-to-day challenges
  • The benefits of helping a salesperson build his or her personal brand
  • His dream job

Want to reach out to Jack to talk more about sales and marketing alignment? Connect with him on LinkedIn.

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Episode 19 Transcript

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Stacy Jackson: Hi everyone. I'm Stacy Jackson.

Alanna Jackson: And I'm Alanna Jackson. We Are the
co-founders of Jackson Marketing and in case you still haven't heard we are
also sisters. We're bringing you episode 19 of the B2B mix show. Stacy what's
the topic today.

Stacy Jackson: Today's topic is for all you marketers
out there who are looking for ways to be more in tune with your sales. This
episode is all about learning how to think like a salesperson.

Alanna Jackson: We hear a lot about sales and
marketing alignment these days and a lot about how these two teams need to be
communicating and collaborating to be aligned.

Alanna Jackson: Today, we have a sales and marketing
Rockstar joining the show who will help all of you marketers out there learn to
think like a salesperson to help in your sales and marketing alignment efforts,
and I've been following Jack for a while now because he was on Bernie Borges
podcast, Social Business Engine, years ago and ever since then I've been
following him on social.

Alanna Jackson: So I can
tell you he is the real deal and his name is Jack Kozakowski.
He is a sales practitioner who is changing the negative image of Millennials.
He is the global head of B2B. He's social sales execution for the creation
agency, which is a sales training and marketing agency and he is also the co-founder
of skillslab.io and a renowned sales blogger and podcaster. You can find Jack's
content on the New York Times, Harvard Business Review, Forbes, and a ton more
top media publications. Jack, welcome to the B2B Mix
Show.

Jack Kosakowski: Sure. Can
we can we do that intro again sounded real nice. I
like that.

Alanna Jackson: Just keep that on a loop and just
keep it going.

Jack Kosakowski: Yeah, we
don't need to go any further.

Alanna Jackson: We're glad to have you.

Jack Kosakowski: Yeah,
thanks for having me.

Stacy Jackson: Yeah, we are. Thank you for joining
us. Would you like to tell us a bit more about The Creation Agency and
skillslab.io?

Jack Kosakowski: Yes, so
actually I think in the intro you said I was the global head of sales, but I
actually got promoted since then. So I'm the CEO of
the US division of Creation Agency. We are a global marketing agency. We have
offices in Europe and then we have offices in the US
and we got about 90 employees globally and what we do is we help companies build
brand and build demand and we do that in a variety of innovative ways. But essentially we're a marketing automation shop and then we do
a lot of we run a lot of social media for companies as well some of the
fastest-growing Tech.

Jack Kosakowski: So that's
my day job and then my other day job is skillslab.io Which is actually the
media wing for Creation Agency. And so we kind of run the Gary V. model, my
business partner and I, Jason Sibley and that is to you know, give tons of
value, educate people on the newest latest and greatest tools and Innovative
Technologies and ways to you know, just generate more demand for their
business. It's kind of our way to give back and then we also do kind of have a
demand gen side of that as well.

Alanna Jackson: Let's go ahead and get down to some
business and attempt to transform the minds of all these marketers listening.
So first, let's kind of start with why do marketers need to think like a
salesperson?

Jack Kosakowski: Well, I
don't really think you have a choice anymore. I've always, I think this is
funny because I've always asked this question, you know, what's the difference
between lead generation and prospecting?

Jack Kosakowski: There's
not really much of a difference right? I mean
prospecting, it's the same as, it's the exact same thing. We just, you know, we
label it two different things for two different departments, right? So, you
know the outbound strategy only that used to work is really really
tough for organizations today and that's why you know marketing agencies are on
the rise, right? Because you know companies used to be able to do without
marketing. They were like "Hey, we just hired up good sales people and
they'll cold call their way right into this growth." And you know, we kind
of know that that's dissipated, right ? Now, has it
disappeared? No, I'm not going to be that guy that's gonna
argue with you that cold calling is dead or anything like that. I don't believe
that.

Jack Kosakowski: But what I
will but what I will say is that marketing has never been more important than
they are today, but the problem is now marketers have to start thinking
differently because so many companies are now adopting digital marketing
tactics and lead generation and social media that you know, just the market's kind
of flooded. It's noisy. So, you know as a marketer, now you almost have to
think like a salesperson and think how am I going to capture this data and get
my salespeople a conversation and unless you're thinking from a more sales
perspective it's a really really tough thing to
accomplish in marketing.

Alanna Jackson: Yeah, you started off marketing,
right? And then you kind of moved over to sales. Is that correct?

Jack Kosakowski: No,
actually I started in sales. So um,

Alanna Jackson: OK, I knew it was one way.

Jack Kosakowski: But yeah,
no, I started in sales. So that was the thing is like I used to think kind of
marketing was kind of a joke for many years.

Jack Kosakowski: And then
when I was at Act On as a regional sales manager, I was just trying to figure
out you know new ways to get business because I hated cold calling and
absolutely despised it. I hate getting cold calls so I
absolutely hated Coke. All right, like, you know. Like to do something to
somebody else that I hate getting done to me.

Jack Kosakowski: So, you
know when I was an Act On I thought you know, hey, I'm
going to try this whole like LinkedIn thing was kind of new and I'm like,
there's got to be a wit. There's got to be something in this where I can, you
know have a value versus ask strategy and still get the appointment and then
get an appointment that's you know farther down the line and actually get an
appointment with people want to talk to me.

Jack Kosakowski: That's the
problem with sales today right is like well we could set a ton of meetings. But
how many of those people actually want to. Do I think that's something we
really have to think about right? There's a lot of talk about sales and
marketing alignment and and you've seen both sides of
the fence.

Stacy Jackson: Do you think it's alignment is to
concrete of an idea and that their needs to be more of a marketing needs to
have empathy or a deeper understanding for sales and vice versa?

Jack Kosakowski: No, I
think they have to work together on everything. I mean, you know, you're seeing
it now with a lot of innovative tech companies you're seeing that marketing is
actually starting to own the be BDRs or the SDRs.

Jack Kosakowski: Because of
the simple fact that what usually happens is marketing is kind of like in a
world its own sales in a world of its own. So
marketing puts up this crazy great campaign. They don't even really talk to
sales about it. They launch the campaign, a bunch of leads come in and the , you know, the SDRs or the people setting appointments
or the salespeople are like what are these, right? They call a few of them.
They you know, they might not be too qualified. Well marketing's not really said to them,
"hey, these are kind of like middle that you know top of the funnel middle
of the funnel leads, they're not really warmed up yet."

Jack Kosakowski: So, you
know, this is how you talk to him. Right? We're not going to actually try to
set an appointment with these people. We're just going to do kind of an intro
call just to say hey, did you need some more information? We saw you downloaded
something. So I think you know just to shift and
seeing that btr's are now being owned by marketing.

Jack Kosakowski: And not
sales is showing to you that this is the shift in what's happening between you
know, whether sales and the marketing alignment was a nice to have versus what
it is now, which is a need to have because of all the inbound strategies and
campaigns that are happening. You know, who's the middleman between those and
how is it how does everybody know they're on the same page so that they
actually get the same results they're both looking for to achieve.

Alanna Jackson: Do you think that the companies where
they, they have kind of put the BDRs up under marketing so that they can do
some of that qualification first before it goes over to sales. Do you think
that in those situations they don't have as much frustration between those two
departments as companies that haven't kind of taken that approach yet?

Jack Kosakowski: I think
the frustrations always there one always thinks the other ones not doing their
job. I don't think that will you need will ever go right? That's true. But the
fact that companies don't align their content strategy, right? So one of the
first things I was look as I say, okay how many of your blog articles were
outlined and put in the name of a sales person inside your organization, you
know, or how many of those are written by a ghost writer and sales had no
input?

Jack Kosakowski: Well,
that's usually a key to whether or not somebody gets has a good content
strategy and it's actually working right you'll notice that companies that
marketing team sits with sales and says, okay, what are the fiber bundles
you're getting in wire? We're not we're not closing these deals or where's the
Gap the salesperson goes, "Well, we know this this is one hindrance."
Okay. Can you tell me about that? Can you outline five points for me that we
could put into a Blog article and then you could use that as a way to prospect
or a way. No move quick deals from getting unstuck in the pipeline and we're
going to put this in your name, right?

Jack Kosakowski: So that
the salesperson now kind of become the authority but on top of that now that
salesperson has a piece of content that will help them stop a deal and I'll
tell you when sales people get involved and they're the ones that start to tell
and give guidance to marketing on what to write about and give them the point.

Jack Kosakowski: That's
when you'll start to see actually people read your content. Right most
companies have a crappy content strategy because they have a bunch of people
writing content that have actually no real clue what the day in the life of one
of their buyers is right. And that's one point that we had talked about before
we got on the call with you today.

Stacy Jackson: Is that the sales people really, I
mean the marketing people really need to get more in tune with sales and maybe
even Shadow them or are at least interview them and. How can they better
empathize with the buyer and their needs so that they can create the right
content and support the sales team?

Jack Kosakowski: Yeah, it's
amazing. How many companies just waste money on marketing collateral and
marketing content without having any sales people's input. And on top of that
is, you know, you're kind of in the we're kind of in
the authority and influential stage, which is like, okay. If I'm a buyer and
you sent me something as a salesperson that marketing row, you're just another
salesperson trying to sell me.

Jack Kosakowski: Now, if
you wrote authoritative and you were the one that wrote it and I'm like, okay.
Well you kind of know what you're talking about. This is kind of a pain when I
have am looking at you a little bit differently when you're delivering content
that I that looks like you've actually created it, right so, you know, there's
just there's so many different angles on that, but I think the the number one.

Jack Kosakowski: Reason you
have to start to get a line on your content strategy with sales is just for the
simple fact that just because you know how to write about something
and you read about it. And then you wouldn't put it on paper that is not
intriguing. It's more intriguing when somebody actually feels like wow you're talking to me.

Jack Kosakowski: That's the
same exact pain I have and marketers whether if they're not in the weeds at the
sales people. They're really not going to ever have a clue with that.

Alanna Jackson: Right. It's going to be all pretty.

Jack Kosakowski: Yeah, I
mean it's gonna sound like it's s, you know built,
you know, one of these companies are building content for SEO like yeah, I'm
not a fan of that.

Stacy Jackson: Yeah, and it's maybe there's too much
of a broad awareness mindset and not that I need to help this person have a
one-to-one conversation and build a relationship and trust.

Jack Kosakowski: Yeah, I
think a little bit of that but at the end of the day your content is there for
one reason one reason only and that's you know, how can a.

Jack Kosakowski: How can a
potential buyer relate to it and they can it can help them personally and
professionally and fix one of their problems and you know too much contents
just written. It's the same old thing said over and over and over. It's really
not not too much value because you know marketers not
a right like a marketer.

There's nothing wrong with that. But those days are over
we're flooded with ghost writing content. Like that's what it is. People. Are
you could you can sniff it a mile away? And so if you
really want to get anything an outcome out of the content you create you have
to have somebody that actually is in the weeds and can relate to the buyer that
you're writing it for.

Alanna Jackson: Right, and it's just over saturation
and even LinkedIn is starting to become very oversaturated with people posting
just articles upon articles of stuff. Let's say that the sales team just
doesn't necessarily want to spend time giving information to the marketing team
or there's some wall there. What should a marketer do in that instance? Because
then they don't really know what their sales reps are dealing with on a
day-to-day basis and what to write about so how should they kind of handle that
situation?

Jack Kosakowski: What you
just did with the VP of sales you say you never you know, you're you better
never ever complain about our leads again, right?

Jack Kosakowski: We like
view you're not going to work with us, then don't work against us, right. So I think you know, I've I would I would guess. That
doesn't happen very often and you know, if it does happen those companies are
going to be around that long if they don't want to know if their sales team not
what does not want to work with the marketing team and doesn't want to give
them input.

Jack Kosakowski: I think
the problem is most of the time sales is begging to do that. Right but it's so
siloed that your sales isn't either there. Maybe
they're reaching out to the marketing team. They're just kind of like markings
not listening. I would say it's more marketing not listening
to sales than sales not listening to Marketing in my experience.

Jack Kosakowski: Most
salespeople are like going to give you input right there like man. I hate why
are we writing blogs about this? Like who cares like, you know, can we change
the strategy or why did we write this ebook? That ebook doesn't do anything for me.

Alanna Jackson: And a lot of times it
kind of goes beyond that, we've kind of touched on it, but it goes beyond that
lead generation and goes more into the content creation of like sales
enablement content creation. What do you think those main obstacles are that
the marketers face when it comes to trying to create that sales enablement
content?

Stacy Jackson: Not talking to sales, which is the obvious but
are there other things that are blocking them?

Jack Kosakowski: It's a
process right like identifying. You know what to name a few. Oh, what's an SQL?
I think too many marketing teams are passing over in que eles
to sales and they're going and they're like at that point like you got to be
careful because if you pass it over to me crappy leads to your sales team,
they'll just quit taking you serious and they won't even follow up on any of
your leads, right?

Jack Kosakowski: So I think that I think that's a big piece is like how do we
work together to really nail down? You know, whether that's a lead scoring I
think lead strings is still relevant, but kind of a thing of the past right?
Like how do we identify how long marketing holds onto
a lead and then gives it to Sales which campaigns are hotter than others.

Jack Kosakowski: You know,
that should go straight to a salesperson. I mean, you know, one of the
struggles is like a webinar, right? If somebody signs up for a webinar, do you
pass that right to sales? We have this argument with our
with our I would say argument would be of the. Especially with every single
client as to should they follow up right away or should they hold on to it?

Jack Kosakowski: Right A
lot of them want to follow up right away with that lead. It's like yeah, you
know, I mean, I don't know about you guys, but I signed up for a lot of
webinars and right could be a bad excuse, you know when I get called by Eric at
all, so I don't wanna get called before the webinars
even happens, right?

Jack Kosakowski: Yeah. I
just signed up for your webinar you women I was out for two weeks, but your
what your SDR trying to set up an appointment with me like I'm already like
yeah. Give me a give me a little time giving let me learn a little bit Yeah, like
there's a experience of
that. So I think that's a big struggle.

Jack Kosakowski: I think
the other one is is Technologies and tracking I think
marketers are not very good at setting up systems that can give them the credit
they deserve and actually hold sales accountable. Right? I mean if you're a
marketing and you really should be able to figure out where are our leads
coming from, right?

Jack Kosakowski: Do we know
that a reason UTM links and you know marketing automation platform to be able
to say okay. These are the where the high-quality leads come from. Our this is
where we need to invest more money and paid advertising. They just don't have
the systems in place and that really is gonna hurt. I
was in marketing because nobody's actually gonna be
able to track and it's just going to be a big guessing game as what's working
and what's not.

Stacy Jackson: Yeah, you got you got we're in the age
of where you can actually build a data-driven marketing and sales process and
it only worked out better for both of you. Of teams to kind of be on the same
page to build that stack to get to a point where you know, you actually can say
this is working.

Jack Kosakowski: This isn't
working. We need to do more of this and less of this and then hold each other
accountable for actually following up on the leads right sales needs to follow
up and call these things. Why are you calling them? We haven't even touched
this. Yeah, and I think even with the marketing automation when someone
implements that in their company and they don't fully
understand it they focus on maybe the vanity metrics that are easy to look at.

Jack Kosakowski: Like, oh
we got this many followers or whatever and not focus
on the data that really leads to money eventually exactly. There's no easy process
anymore. So that makes it even more apparent as to okay. We're running ads on
multiple different channels and we're putting all this ad spend in there and
we're doing all this different creative and we have no way to be able to
understand thoroughly.

Jack Kosakowski: What kind
of quality of leads is coming from where and be able to optimize our budget
like we're bad marketers. I'm sorry, but you're a bad marketer. If you can't
figure out, you know, if you're spending $10,000 a month paid ads and you're
doing it on PPC. You're doing it on your Social Links and add your doing
Facebook ads to an Instagram ads you're doing a
search.

Jack Kosakowski: Like if
you don't understand how many leads and what cost per lead from all those
channels are and which ones are the highest converting like. You're a bad
marketer. You need to figure that out. That's a big deal.

Alanna Jackson: Yeah, that's something that you
should know because that's going to lead you to make the strategy that is going
to work best for your company and bring in more revenue.

Jack Kosakowski: Exactly.

Alanna Jackson: So do you
think that there's. Any kind of like confusion between social selling versus
social media marketing with between the two teams or do you find that there's
like a blurred line there these days because I know some people call social
selling is social marketing is not social selling and do you find that that
gets kind of Muddy Waters?

Jack Kosakowski: I think
we're the blue where the blur comes in now is social selling and personal
branding. I think that's a big blur because essentially if sales people are
doing social selling. Directly, they're also building a personal brand personal
brand is as a byproduct of really good social selling as a sales person and as
a marketer and whatever, you know as an executive, but you you're more
strategic when your social selling.

Jack Kosakowski: That's why
the word selling these in it, right and your social marketing. It's a little
less strategic. It's more of like going to put this out there this this one
message. I hope it resonates with the thousand people versus I hope it
resonates with this one person or these 10 people that I'm trying to have a
conversation.

Jack Kosakowski: As more AI
and automation enters marketing and selling becomes a little more being out
there in social media or whatever. Do you think that the two roles are going to
merge a bit more and maybe taking on that how to Think Like A salesperson
mindset is a way to kind of future proof your career as a marketer, you know AI
from my experience pretty much sucks till now, you know, what I think is
interesting is like chorus.ai for example like they do call they do a I call
they record your call transcribe your calls they scribe what you're saying and
how much you're talking and how much money else is talking.

Jack Kosakowski: So I think
there's like some technologies that are in the infancy stages like that that
are really really good that you can capitalize on
right now, which is analyzing sales calls, sample sales conversations its scale
and letting somebody letting a technology analyze what you're saying wrong and
what you're saying, right what you say more of what you need to say less up
right and that it's ongoing one-to-one coaching. But
as far as like marking goes, you know, I've got a few technologies that use one
for we use one for ads called Companion Labs, which is pretty cool.

Jack Kosakowski: And so
essentially what it does is it takes down and breaks down your Facebook and
Instagram ads and then it tells you, you know, if you've got a million people
in like a look-alike audience that tells you you
know. To break this down into a hundred thousand. You need to spend x amount of
money here to get the most return.

Jack Kosakowski: So it kind of predicts you're wearing what audiences you
should be targeting and how much you should be spending. That's an infancy kind
of stage of AI. But other than that, I'm not seeing too much real AI happening
yet marketing so it's just a bunch of Scare Tactics when it comes to losing
your job at this point.

Jack Kosakowski: It's just
an overworked used buzzword that you know, sounds Innovative and gets people
excited. But you know when we test these things all the time and I'll tell you
when I get into I'm like no different. I'm still doing
manual process it regardless of what AI is. Yeah. I found the same like it's not as smart as your led to believe it is.

Jack Kosakowski: It's just
a it seems like just a lot of different pieces put together to pull in the
specific thing information that you need. Yeah. I think I think AI is good for
data, but I I'm just not convinced that it's going to be good for human
interaction. Yeah, I agree. I mean, you know, yeah, yeah. Be a lip you're not gonna be able to con people through a bot to believe that
this is like a real conversation.

Jack Kosakowski: Now with
that being said, it could be an experience where people don't care if they're
having a conversation with a real person. They just want to get to the point
figure out what they are trying to achieve and if that's hot more power to it,
but I think you know this whole idea that we're going to replace sales and
marketing with AI is ridiculous.

Alanna Jackson: So you heard it from the sales
marketing rockstar you're okay. You're jobs not gonna be taken by
AI.

Jack Kosakowski: Well,
there are some that will be taken by AI.

Alanna Jackson: Well, that's true. For any sales
professionals that might be listening, what do you think they need to remember
when it comes to thinking like or empathizing with their colleagues in
marketing?

Jack Kosakowski: You know,
I don't know if these are I word I guess but. I just
think it you know, you got to want to care what you got to want to care about
what the other side's how you can help the other side and you have to do it
with like the right motive. Right? A lot of sales people are like, you know,
the motive is get me more leads like okay, well great.
Well, we'll what you know, what you realize is that your motive then screw you
right know what your motive is like you actually want to help us understand.
You know what you're going through on a day-to-day so that we can help create
you content that will actually help you drive more sales.

Jack Kosakowski: Because I
think you know salespeople only just want to rely on marketing when marking to
give them everything they want to lay down. But those days are over. It's not
going to happen sales people, you know marking can only get you so much right
you got figure out how to get the rest. But if you have a really good motive,
is that of your sales team like Hey, we're you guys missing a gap you guys want
can I help you?

Jack Kosakowski: Get a
customer into a customer testimonial right? And how
many sales people are helping marketing gets the customer testimonials. I mean,
there's just little things like, you know, if you want something from one. You
know a lot of times you have something that they need in order to get you that so we're how are you being proactive?

Jack Kosakowski: And what's
your motive on collaborating say? Hey, let me get you this right being
proactive and say hey, I've got a cutter kit. We've got a customer that's
kicking ass right now and I just talked to him and they said they would love to
do a little testimonial you owe me set up the time for you guys, right? What
like help help help them
out. I mean a lot of time the marketing might not even know who you're truly
successful customers are because nobody's telling them.

Alanna Jackson: Right. That's what I was about to
say. They may not even know that that conversation happened where all this
great stuff was said. And so how are they going to take that and use that if
they don't even know about it.

Jack Kosakowski: Exactly.
That's exactly it.

Alanna Jackson: Are there any final thoughts that you
would give marketers to try and get into that salesperson head space.

Jack Kosakowski: Sales
people love to talk about themselves. So I think you know if you just sit down
with people say hey, I want to buy you lunch,right?
Like I want to I want to buy you lunch today, and I want to pick your brain,
you know, I want to. About I wanna hear about your
day right interested in what your day looks like, you know take that one on one
time and just get out of the office, right, you know the office and then offer
to help them build their, you know build their personal brand through a
marketing perspective.

Jack Kosakowski: I mean, if
you know a salesperson say, "hey, I'd love to sit down and ask you these
five questions about what you think the future of X, Y, & Z looks like in
our industry," right? What's wrong with making your salespeople famous?
Right? I mean, it's it all. Does you well to use the people internally and it
doesn't have to be salespeople could be your customer success reps or whatever,
but you know, there's so many creative ways that you can get people in your own
employees involved in your marketing and very few companies are doing it. Itt doesn't really make sense.

I

Stacy Jackson: wonder if they just go about it the wrong way,
especially if they're looking for subject matter experts or people to help do a
Blog and they just throw it to them. Like hey, we write a blog. It's like you
need to take the time and the effort like you said take them to lunch talk to
them write it up and then let them put their name on it. I mean.

Jack Kosakowski: Yeah, you
know another thing is okay. So we see this a lot with
clients. So come on in there. Like hey, we've got all
this content. We're getting we're struggling like nobody's reading and nobody
sharing it. I'm like, okay great. Well, you know, here's an idea. Why don't we
take one of these posts that have re re do it?

Jack Kosakowski: And then
let's put it on your salesperson LinkedIn, right? Let's publish it under there
like thin and you know, since we're not getting any love on the blog, let's get
to the salesperson is trying to get some love and some credibility on. Humming
done right start some conversation what muscular realizes that content is the
new bridge to conversation.

Jack Kosakowski: So where do
you post that content and who it's from will decide who gets the conversation
from their content and so many companies want to put everything on their blog
but you know at the end of the day if your real goal is to help your sales
people start publishing under their name and letting them put it on their
LinkedIn right help them build some content in their LinkedIn profile because
that's only going to help you in the long run and that's going to really help
you build a relationship with your salespeople.

Stacy Jackson: Yeah, and that's who the customer or
the prospective customer needs to trust that. I mean sure you want him to trust
your brand. But first I have to trust the person that's going to lead them to
the deal or the sale.

Jack Kosakowski: Hundred
percent.

Alanna Jackson: So we have a
for fun question just to kind of wrap it up. So if you
weren't doing what you're doing now, what would be your dream job?

Jack Kosakowski: Wow, I
mean to be fair. This kind of is my dream job.

Stacy Jackson: I was gonna
say you just got upgraded as Alanna said earlier.

Jack Kosakowski: Well, I
don't know if being a CEO is my dream job, but no I think I could more of like
just creating something fun and using and being able to test. I mean one of the
things that's cool about running an agency is you get a by a lot of
Technologies. They barely use right you like you get a you get a play with
latest tools you get a see if this works get a test.
You know, you have you actually have some money to test some different types of
ads, you know, you can create any kind of content you want.

Jack Kosakowski: So I think it's just. Like the creative aspect of the role
is really what kind of keeps me alive every day and excited to wake up in the
morning and you know, and then you get a pass that on. So
one thing we do a lot as we test stuff internally. That's what we have skillslab for. A lot
of times we're going to test something before we go try to get money for a
client for it. Right? So let's try this. Let's do some
we kind of called the skills lab. It's called the skills lab for a reason right
so it can be literally it's like a lab of your me and a few other people.
Business partners that we like like hey, we want to
try this. This looks cool. Let's test this on skillslab
before we you know, try to go pitch it and get money from a client.

Jack Kosakowski: We want to
kind of know what we're doing and see if it actually gets results. So I think that's the exciting thing that I don't know if I
would I don't know if I'd want to know any other career.

Stacy Jackson: Well, that's great then. It's great
when your passion and dream aligns with real life.

Jack Kosakowski: Now, don't
get me wrong there are days where things just aren't working. Right and that's
kind of frustrating for her.

Alanna Jackson: Well sure. Yeah. Yeah
we all have those days and we just want to go live on a beach somewhere.

Jack Kosakowski: Exactly.

Alanna Jackson: So, all right people you have Jack's
information about how to get in the head space and the right head space and
kind of Think Like A salesperson. So he's armed you
when the information you need to start thinking that way and it's up to you to
apply it to your strategy to start seeing results. So
Jack if people want to get in touch with you, how should they reach out to you?

Jack Kosakowski: Yeah, just
I'm super active on LinkedIn so just text me on LinkedIn and just reach out and
if you would you know, you've got questions... I'm always down to have a
conversation

Stacy Jackson: Great and we will include your link to
your LinkedIn profile in our show notes. So don't
worry people. You don't have to go look it up. We will connect you through the
show notes. Jack, thank you so much for joining us today. We really appreciate
it.

Jack Kosakowski: Yeah.
Thanks for having me.

Alanna Jackson: Yes. Thank you. And if you want to
get in touch with me or Stacy you can hit us up on social. On Twitter, you can
find Stacy at @stacy_jax. You can find me @alanna_jax. Not a Twitter fan? Look us up on LinkedIn. And
don't forget and always leave us a voicemail on the Anchor mobile app. Have a
great week. Bye.

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